After the Republic of Macedonia became independent, SDSM was the leading  subject in the government for almost 12 years. However, your party lost the recent parliamentary election and you have been elected the leader in the early party Congress. You have accepted the new status of the party for the next 4 years. However, you have the lowest preference ever since the establishment of the party. Have you managed to carry out a self-reflection in connection to the party and to identify the faulty decisions that caused the electional defeat?

When you are one of the leading parties in the transition process, you have to be prepared for great victories, but sometimes also for difficult defeats. In moments like this you also prove that you are worth to be a strong party, when in a critical situation you can find strength for reformation and modernization, for improving the party. SDSM was in power from 1992 to 1998 and then from 2002 to 2006, i.e. we were in power for 10 years alltogether. 10 out of 16 years of transition is a lot, and that is why we bear all the advantages of Macedonian progress as well as the disadvantages arising from the mistakes done and from the long transition. Thus until 2006 we have managed to bring peace and stability into the country and to win the status of a candidate state for accession to the EU, but we have not managed to solve the big economic and social issues in Macedonia, and therefore we lost the election.

For the media you stated that the defeat gave you a lesson, that SDSM under your leadership shall listen to the voice of public carefully. Is it really happening, what are the results or reactions to your statement, or was it only an observation?

SDSM has been unable to lead a dialogue with their own members for a long time. When we were the leading party in the government, we as the party leaders used to state the positions of the party with little consulting the members` opinion. We rarely engaged intrapolitical dialogue. Therefore before the recent Congress we started a dialogue with our members introducing the motto „SDSM is each of its members”. The meaning is that each member has the right to influence the policy of their party, each member has the right to tell their opinion, each member should participate in establishing the policy of SDSM. For the first time in the SDSM history, the election inside the party started with self-nomination of the candidates for chairpeople in local districts or organizations. For the first time they came with their own programs and for the first time all the members expressed their opinions on the programs. To listen to your nation (public), you have to learn to listen to your own members first. You might not always agree with them, because there are different opinions in a big party, but it is important for everyone to tell their opinion. As a result of these changes, our rating has increased from the all-time low 8 % to 10 %. 10 % is little for SDSM, but it is an increase in comparison with the situation four months ago.

It is always people or groups who are responsible for a mistake or a decision. I would like to ask you how your party came to terms with the people who made mistakes. Have you taken any personnel measures?

There are no former SDSM government ministers in the new SDSM primary leading garniture. They are young leaders, who have been in SDSM for a long time, but who have not – or only a few of them have been – in the primary leading garniture of the party. The new leadership has disposed of the burden of the past and has become a creation of the modern SDSM party, which we have always strongly desired.

Do you consider yourself – so to say – a new reformatory leader of the party? 

Yes, I do.

Primary election is coming up, at present taking place in the lower districts or regions of Macedonia. Let me ask you if this primary election, which you have already mentioned, represents the first step in the process of strenghtening the party?

Our members are satisfied, because for the first time candidates for chairpeople can register on their own and they must present their own program. It shows that the election does not depend on two or three lobbing groups that will privilege certain candidates. At present, some of our members, who were never allowed to get into the first plan, but who are perspective for the party, do appear as candidates. Our members have received this important step positively.

You prefer new people, but what do you find important? People initiating political activity, or their professional and expert qualification?

We want to combine the best from these two worlds. We do not need professional politicians on the local level. We need people, who will be able to lead a party on the local level (in district organizations), who can establish trust among the members, people, who have respect in their towns. Some of them have respect because they were good businessmen, some were good MPs, some of them gain high esteem from the people.  We want to present people, who other people trust. Political experience is built gradually. Lack of professional politicians means that they are difficult to change, difficult to reform, and thus if the party wants to change its behavior in the politics as well as its image, it is better to turn to younger and less experienced people.

What political agenda do you present to the voters in order to gradually gain their trust in the next election? What will you engage in and focus on in the next four years, what will you deal with if you gain trust?

I could describe our political agenda in six words: „We have no time to waste”. This refers to reformations in the party as well as to politics in the country. The main points of the agenda will be stable interethnic policy, expedite integration in Europe and better economy. Because I can see that there will be more detailed questions concerning this matter, I shall conclude this subject so far.

VMRO DPMNE won due to their new economic program for Macedonia. Besides other things, they also have contacts with SDKU (currently opposing party in Slovakia, which was in power for 8 years and carried out remarkable economic results in Slovakia). VMRO DPMNE is taking the same path as SDKU did: strong economic program, progress in Slovakia – now progress in Macedonia. In all fairness, here traditional lef-wing parties fall behind. I would like to ask you, if SDSM will be able to offer an  alternative competitive to the right-wing economic concept offered by VMRO DPMNE?

VMRO DPMNE presents a concept that states something on paper, but in reality carries out something completely different. For instance, I think that equal tax is the same policy as SDKU presented when they were in the government. VMRO DPMNE line of reasoning was that enterprises and companies will be allowed to pay lower taxes and thus they will be able to invest more in their economic business plans. However, in newspaper advertisements appeared that the tax will fall from 15 to 12, later even to 10 %. But the fact that the number of subjects of taxation will increase did not appear in advertisements. The outcome is that small and medium enterprises pay lower tax than in the last year. Our concept will be liberating business and increasing benefits, while the price of employees will be lower for business, but at the same time the wages will be sufficiently high.  Despite the stereotype that the left wing spends more money than the right wing, the opposite is true in Macedonia. The SDSM budget is still lower than the one VMRO DPMNE spends.

Do you agree that the equal tax mentioned (15 to 12, then to 10 %) can attract foreign investors who should be paying much more in other countries in the world, that it is this step Nikola Gruevski follows, and that it is not a step taken for the sake of small enterprisers in Macedonia (which is not at all nice), but on the other hand that is exactly what will attract big investors from abroad, who want to pay lower tax?

So far we have not noticed such an outcome in Macedonia. Foreign investors, while holding talks with the government or politicians, have never, really never said that the tax is a reason why they do not invest more in Macedonia. They say that social and health levies are too high. They complain about that, but the government does not decrease such  levies. They also complain about disfunctionality of justice and administration, but they do not change that either. Thus taxes were never stated a reason why investors do not come to Macedonia.

What do you consider the most positive fact from the recent term you were in the government? You were not the leader, but could you sum it up?

We have normalized the country. In four years the country, which in 2002 was in a post-conflict situation, became a candidate country for accession to the EU. Not even great optimists in Macedonia and Brussels did believe that such a rapid transformation was possible. Such a stability was neither in interethnic relations, nor in economy and finances. During the four years we had an augmented increase in gross domestic industrial production and a decrease in unemployment rate. It was a small, insufficient decrease, but still the economy has been stabilized.

So you claim that in some way you have stabilized the situation and prepared the conditions for the new government to carry out new reformations? Could we state it this way?

In 2006 Gruevski entered a completely different situation than the one he left for us in 2002, because in 2002 he – then the Minister of Finance – left the state budget with a great deficit, great obligations and great debts, and today he gained it back in much more positive state.

The Gruevski`s government has been in power already for 8 months. It is not much, but could you evaluate and characterize the period of time?

Allright, I will start with the positive aspects. We supported the new government to begin a process that could be called a „regulatory whip”, lowering the administration barriers for business. So far they have only announced it, but we will surely support them. In our opinion the government has made a few big mistakes in following spheres: they do not have any respond to interethnic issues, they carry out passive European policy, and the third – probably the most important – they are more interested in image than content, they care more about their image (in the media, political image etc.), and therefore in those few issues they work as a „village”, but they work perfectly. They take easy decisions in certain issues relating to education, but at the same time nobody asks what the price is and who is to pay. They act in a similar unserious way in the sphere of health care. Therefore we think that education and health care will induce serious problems in the future.

Considering the fact that there is a number of problems in Macedonia, do you think that the government will be able to solve them in 4 years?

No government can solve all the problems, that is a mission impossible. Thus if we criticise VMRO DPMNE party, we criticise them less for the problems that they cannot solve, but we criticise them a lot for the problems they create.

Do you think that Gruevski`s new government acts leisurely due to the fact that they have majority in the parliament, but also because your opposition is currently disunited, split?

The government acts with leisure because it is in the beginning ot their mandate, when all the problems seem to have a solution. They have time for everything and thus the citizens have great expectations. The problem will occur at the end of their mandate. The first time we lost in public opinion polls was only in January 2006. Until then we were always stronger.

Do you not have the feeling that you – the opposition – make the situation easier for them?

If the oposition was stronger, the only result would be that our preferences would not drop so low. Because we received 8 % preference of the public opinion at a time when a serious fighting before the Congress was going on in SDSM. It did make it easier for them, of course, but in my opinion the first argument is more important.

Your former coalition partner DUI is boycotting the parliament. Do you think that this is a suitable way to reach political goals, or that it is normal to boycott a parliament in a democratic society?

Neither Macedonia, nor DUI are the first and the only ones to boycott a parliament. Boycott, according to our experience, is never truly efficient and sometimes it brings a great risk. SDSM is probably the only political party, which at present has the right to criticise DUI for the boycott, because VMRO DPMNE as well as DPA have boycotted parliament in the past.

What actual steps does SDSM take in order to solve the situation in the parliament? Is there any way out of the situation?

One can use force to take something from people and parties, but one cannot use force to give them something, especially not advice. Our advice that we directed both at the government and the DUI party was that to reach an agreement, compromise is essential. Certain concessions on both sides are essential for the compromise. But the government and DUI think that the compromise will be reached without any concessions from their initial positions. However, that is impossible.

Do you think that the disunity of the opposition, the absence of regular political dialogue in the parliament and ethnic conflicts are a negative signal for foreign countries, which can slow down the eurointegrative process eventually?

Yes, that is the reason why we tried to point out to the governing party as well as to DUI that it is them who has to be efficient in this matter. A political dialogue does not mean to sit down and talk, substantial is to reach an agreement. Such an agreement should then lead to regular parliament, regular discussion and positive evaluation from Brussels. The announcement of the European Commission from 2006 included serious criticism related to the issue of political dialogue. If this does not change, we will receive such negative evaluation again, and then the integration will be endangered. We are absolutely aware of that, and we have been pointing out the subject since last August.

In your opinion, how long will this situation continue and what will be the solution?

The way out is simple, the problem is not very difficult, but if one does not have the will to solve it, only then it becomes insolvable. As for the duration of the situation, there are some positive reactions, but everything depends on the two parties: VMRO DPMNE and DUI. We hope it should come to a conclusion at the end of May, so the positive outcome could be noticed also by the EU and NATO.

At current pace of political work and in current conditions, what date of Macedonia`s accession to the EU do you predict?

Last year, our state plan was to receive the date of the EU negotiations by the end of  2006, to start negotiations in 2007 and to prepare Macedonia to access the EU until 2010. It meant that according to the plan Macedonia should have become an EU member probably in 2012. That was our internal plan, but in relation to the current delay – we did not receive the negotiation date in 2006, we do not know if we will receive it in 2007 and that indicates that these dates are unrealizable – we talk about the EU membership after 2012.

When will be solved the problem between the President and the government concerning filling of ambassador positions?

The answer is almost the same as to the previous question. The Prime Minister and the government have to be aware of the fact that division of governing power is a matter of compromise, and that both sides have to be prepared for the compromise. As a government, we also had a cohabitation period, but at the same time we knew that a certain number of ambassador positions will be filled according to the proposition of the President. At present, neither Gruevski, nor VMRO DPMNE are familiar with the alphabet of cohabitation. If they do not overcome it themselves, I do not think the agreement is possible.

What is your opinion on when and how will be solved the continuing issue of the constitutional name of your country in international contact?

The Republic of Macedonia has made bilateral and diplomatic agreements with a great number of world states under the constitutional name. At present, also among the permanent mebmers of the Security Council we have been recognized under the constitutional name by the majority: the USA, Russia, China etc. Yet very important is how  the problem of using the constitutional name will be solved in connection to NATO and EU, because their joint foreign policy generates problems for the EU and NATO members. The time is on Macedonia`s side. The constitutional name is used by a great part of our foreign partners.  In our opinion, the proposition that Matthew Nimitz made last year, nominated from the side of the United Nations, repesented a solid base for such an agreement. Let us hope that Greece will reevaluate their decision to refuse the proposition. I do not expect the issue of constitutional name to be solved this year. But the time is passing, and it will be better for both Macedonia and Greece to pass a decision or an agreement sooner than later. However, prognoses are an unrewarding task, we do not know who will win the election in Greece, we do not know, if the issue of the name of Macedonia will be an issue in the election, thus there is a great number of questions concerning the matter.

European institutions have repeatedly criticised high corruption rate, weak law enforcement… These factors slow down a number of processes of economic cooperation.  Another destabilizing factor is the unsolved status of Kosovo. What is your prognosis in this matter?

Some things do depend on you, some do not. You should do the maximum in the spheres depending on you: law enforcement, system of justice, administration, corruption… I have already stated that foreign investors, when analyzing Macedonia, direct their criticism mostly at these problems. Therefore we consider necessary to carry on with the reformations of the system of justice at a high pace. Unfortunately, the reformations of justice are currently in a „stand by” mode. Kosovo is a matter where we have little influence. Therefore I do agree with the saying that you can choose your friends, in the worst case you can forget your family or stop communicating with them, but you cannot choose your neighbours, because you coexist with them. Macedonia must prove that its stability is guaranteed, regardless what is going on in Kosovo. For that reason we need stable interethnic relations. In my opinion, Macedonia has established immunity against the „spill over” effect from Kosovo thanks to the Ohrid Agreement. But the Agreement is not realized once and forever, it is being implemented even today, it will be implemented tomorrow and the day after tomorrow… We were expecting that the issue of Kosovo would be solved sooner, but unfortunately that did not happen. This kind of insecurity, to be honest, is the worst for Macedonia. I do hope that there will be a resolution in the Security Council, so we do not enter (in the opposite case) the same stage of recognizing the independence of Kosovo, or the opposite, because that would harm the stability in the whole region.

In connection to economic situation in Macedonia, what are the possibilities of economic cooperation with Slovak Republic?

Macedonia has three large sources of export: metal industry, textiles and agricultural products. The simpliest way to put it would be that Macedonia does not use its agriculture for export sufficientl, yet. We have excellent products, healthy food and low prices, but our position on the market is weak. At the same time the biggest problem also for economic cooperation of Macedonia and Slovakia is transport. Thus we must ensure quality and fast cargo transport, a part by air, another part via corridor 10 and further north, which – in my opinion – is problem of Macedonian exporters. If I am not mistaken, we have a deficit with Slovakia as well, and I suppose that current automobile investments make you more active in exporting to the Republic of Macedonia than the opposite. Macedonia also has human resources and capacitites to get involved and secured in the chain of automobile industry. The information about investment of Johnson Controls, Johnson Mety might influence and contribute to improvement of the economic situation.

How intense is the cooperation between SDSM and other left-wing or social democratic parties in the EU countries? Is there any cooperation at all?

We have been a member of Socialist International in the Party of European Socialists for a few years, which includes all socialist, social democratic and labourist left-wing parties, but we have not made use of the membership to a sufficient degree. At present, as an opposing party we have started to develop our bilateral contacts with social democratic parties much more seriously, but not our cooperation within the European area. Thus now we have more time as well as interest and thanks to the new policy we are trying to deepen, strenghten and improve our relations with social democratic parties with similar experience. Of course, also with Slovak social democratic party SMER, to which we have not paid intense attention in the past. For instance, it is more difficult to find some similarities with British labourists, it is much simplier in relation to social democratic parties in the closer region.

Social democratic party SMER is currently leading in Slovakia, and it reaches record-breaking preferences of 50 % (I think this is a record for the whole Europe). Are there any possibilities of cooperation?

I am glad that you have mentioned the 50 % support, because in Macedonia an opinion has come to life that current 33 % support to the government is a world record. I do not know… (laughing). I hope that in this term we will be able to develop also bilateral contacts with SMER, which we did not have in the past.

Well, apparently you are interested; in what sphere would you seek for the cooperation with SMER?

Mainly in the sphere of economy and economic/social policy, because there are certain similar characteristics in the development of Macedonia and Slovakia over the past ten years. We have started cooperation with a few social democratic parties on the basis of their economic and social policy.

Do you think that Slovak republic is able to help you with the integration efforts to the EU and NATO (and if yes, how)? I would like to ask you for a more specific answer, if it is possible.

In at least two things: advice and support. Slovakia is both in the EU and NATO and its vote is one of the 27 deciding votes, thus in the decision-making process on the date of negotiation concerning accession to the EU, concernig the negotiation itself and the EU membership, we must have Slovakia on our side. Until then we need advice, because Slovakia did not have a perfect transition either – in the beginning it had more serious political and economic problems than other states. Slovakia managed to become (or better – since 1997 – to turn) from a country falling behind to one of the leading countries in Central and Eastern Europe, both in economic sphere and in integration.